August 23, 2007
Quagmires (Bob Franken)
You have to give President Bush credit. After all these years of denying the Iraq war compared to Vietnam, the president now says there are parallels. Flexibility is a good thing, particularly from the stubborn.
But he's ignoring perhaps the most important similarity. The major U.S. military commitment in both conflicts came as the result of U.S. government deception: the Gulf of Tonkin in Vietnam and Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
And, of course, there's the enduring, bitter division over whether we should have gotten involved in either.
There is also the question about how military planners (is that an oxymoron?) could have ignored the similarities to another recent combat zone, the Balkans.
Then and now, the biggest obstacle to success was/is the suppressed religious hatred that exploded into deadly violence the moment it could. And yes, the ethnic divisions in the former Yugoslavia also had a huge religious component, as they always do.
But back to Vietnam. That adventure was a serious blow to American prestige, just like Iraq, and there probably are many lessons to learn.
Maybe one of them would be that after the United States swallowed its pride and left the Vietnamese people to their own devices, they emerged with a growing economy that may be the catalyst for democratic change.
Maybe that could be Iraq's "light at the end of the tunnel."
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There was no government deception, all major world leaders believed there were WMDs there. Saddam behaved like there WMDs, and never let the inspectors have unfettered access to the possible sites. His own military commanders believed he had WMDs. This has become acceptable to repeat because it has been repeated so many times. Shameful.
Comment by Igor R. — August 23, 2007 @ 10:50 am
But the real reason, Igor that we went into Iraq was for oil. That was the PNAC plan, Igor. Don't bury your head on this.
And just like McNamera in Nam, Bush says there is a domino if Iraq falls. That is as much rubbish as McNamera. In fact, ask McNamera now. He would tell you Vietnam was a mistake. We trade with them even though we "lost".
Comment by Gary Anderson — August 23, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
The Democrats continue to be their own WMD's, Wienies of Mass Deception.
Comment by Robert Rosencrans — August 23, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Gary, I have no idea what plan Bush followed. All Saddam had to do was to say "OK inspectors, go where you'd like, I have nothing to hide" and Bush would have no possibility of attacking. Yet you won't even acknowledge this point. The choice was Saddam's more than Bush's, and he chose to act crazy.
Dominoes? Vietnam in the sixties was different than Vietnam in the seventies, and Middle East is different from Southeast Asia. Be careful with sweeping analogies.
Comment by Igor R. — August 23, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
"There was no government deception…"
Al Qaeda-Saddam connection; yellow cake and the 'mushroom cloud', aluminum tubes etc. Nope. No deception.
Further, lost for many, WMD did NOT = war for most thoughtful observers and nations. Saddam was believed to have some level of such since 1991 and they were rightly considered no significant threat to the US. The sudden war imperative required a Saddam 911 connection and imminent nuclear threat to justify a war when none was thought necessary from 1991-2001.
Comment by James McCormick — August 23, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
James, nobody claimed a 9/11 connection. You may say that Cheney implied it, but nobody ever claimed it. And I repeat: all Saddam had to do was to allow the inspectors to go where they wanted any time and with no restrictions. He chose to lose, just like the Democrats are chosing today.
Comment by Igor R. — August 24, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
Igor, let's do a little reality check here. You told James, :nobody claimed a 9/11 connection". Read this quote from Bushy March 21, 2003;
"…I have also determined that the use of armed force against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001…."
That quote was from a letter from Bush to then Speaker of the House ('Fat Boy' enabler).
Do you have a clue as to the accuracy, or lack thereof, of the crap you're spewing? Maybe that quotation will help you out a bit Igor.
Comment by Chris in NM — August 25, 2007 @ 1:11 am
One other thing Igor (reality check); Bush kicked the weapons inspectors out, not Saddam (Rummy's pal).
Comment by Chris in NM — August 25, 2007 @ 1:24 am