September 10, 2007
General Betray Us? (Ron Christie)
My friend John Feehery touched on this earlier today, but MoveOn.org just astounds me with their shrill rhetoric and inflammatory nonsense. In case you haven’t seen it (and please don’t do them the favor), MoveOn took out an ad in The New York Times this morning in advance of Gen. David Petraeus’s testimony before the House of Representatives today.
“General Betray Us,” the ad proclaims. Gen. Petraeus has repeatedly had his character and credibility attacked in the days running up to today’s hearing. Many have found fault with the military and political progress in Iraq. At the same time, this is a man who has served his country with valor, bravery and distinction for decades. Rather than being a political “stooge,” Gen. Petraeus was asked to come to Capitol Hill to offer an independent assessment of progress in Iraq, along with U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker. Rather than show bias or seek to curry favor with a particular audience as a United States military officer, Petraeus is bound to a code that is as old and as special as the United States itself: Duty. Honor. Country.
I should not be surprised, but to question the duty, honor and service to the United States that Gen. Petraeus has shown in decades of service to us is just sickening. Have we returned to the era of Vietnam, where left-wing fanatics choose to treat the brave men and women in uniform with scorn rather than our thanks, praise and admiration? It takes guts to wear the uniform of our country and even more guts to put it all on the line in some forsaken place overseas to defend the freedom, liberty and rights of those who would accuse Gen. Petraeus of “cooking the books” for the White House. I only wish those who would hide behind such a cowardly advertisement would put their names out for one and every American to see who they are. What a disgrace.
Thank you, Gen. Petraeus, for your duty, honor and service to the United States of America.
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Ron;
What is this MoveOn.org rant today? You, John and Frank are on a roll. What is MoveON doing that has you all up in a snit. Could it be that over 60% of Americans agreed with them? Is it that we all know that Gen. Betrayus is going to lie in his hearing today? Look Ron, over 53% of the people polled said that the General was going to sugar coat his report (that the WH wrote) and the professionals have already said that he is cherrypicking information just like your boss did in the run up to this fiasco in the first place. We all know that Bush wants this war to stay until he leaves so he can blame the next person in the WH. Don't get all huffy about MoveON, it was your boss that screwed this up and people like me and many others want the troops safe at home. Unlike you, I wore the uniform of th United States and I would never equate sitting in the WH to serving the needs of my country. So if you don't like what over 60% of Americans have to say, I would suggest that you MoveOn.org.
Comment by Mike Coleman — September 10, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
I second the thanks to General Petraeus and am honored to have him leading the greatest most moral military in the history of the world; ours. We should be proud to have men like this fighting for freedom around the world. The Iraqi people are more appreciative than the moveon scum you reference. The Iraqi people know how important people like our military are in protecting the world from terrorism. Unfortunately moveon followers are so intelectually dishonest and most likely incapable, they just don't know how much this man means to their ability to be this stupid!
Comment by Rich — September 10, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
To all the liberals who criticize Fox News, but are firmly behind organizations like MoveOut (I mean On) I ask, how can you be so hypocritical?
Comment by John Simmons — September 10, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
So MoveOn thinks that General Petraeus will be "Cooking the Books for the White House".
Does anybody think that Joe Biden is cooking the books after HIS visit? How about Durbin, who was impressed with the surge after visiting Iraq, but now also thinks Peatraeus will be cooking the books? Do you trust that Turban Durbin is giving his "professional" opinion? You bet he is. Since his profession is "political prostitute", the opinion may not be honest, but VERY professional.
Who will believe that MoveOn that has always been against the war will be passing an honest opinion on the surge? If Iraq today became a giant Switzerland, would MoveOn acknowledge that?
The anti-American parasites are having a field day. Oh, how they want for the American troops to leave Iraq by the spring of next year. Do you know why? Is it because they just can't wait any more and are sorry for the military deaths? No, it's because they can't stand the thought of the Presidential election unfolding while the victory in Iraq is being cemented and all of their falsehoods exposed. Give a boot to the traitors, victory is the only choice!
Comment by Igor R. — September 10, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Why do all of the GOP chickenhawks (those who have never served, and never would) equate "Standing up to the military's line of political rhetoric" with "Not being patriotic?" We (the sane majority of citizens) simply believe that this country has lost its way, and is spending far, far too much on this FIASCO, not to mention the cost to our country's military people in terms of wounded and dying. Our standing in the world is on a downward path at this point in time, like we've NEVER WITNESSED BEFORE! Wake up you neocons, for the handwriting is definitely on the proverbial wall…ESPECIALLY FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
Comment by Tim — September 10, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
At What Price…
Is there any way for us to know just how much The New York Times charged MoveOn.org for their full page "General Betray Us" advertisement today? Did they pay full price, or did they get a special, reduced rate? I'd……
Trackback by Confederate Yankee — September 10, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
Now Ron takes on the role of "drama queen", feigning shock and dismay at the Move on.org tactics. The Igor chorus weighs in with their cowardly push for more war and more death.
Here's the thing. The General has served his country admirably. I have no doubt that he is committed to the well being of our troops. He has, however, let his careerist goals trump his grasp of reality. The "surge" data is cooked. There is no doubt. Three other reports directly contradict his. Also remember, several Generals have come before him, all of whom were fired for attempting to level with the Congress and the American people.
He therefore, after a distinguished career has earned the title "General Betray Us.
Comment by Chris Calbi — September 10, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
The ONLY "anti-American parasites" are those who still back this President and the disastrous, and clearly lost, Iraq occupation
Because those who back W also back
Cutting & running from finishing off Usama bin Laden, the Taliban and al-Qaeda when it was localized in Afghanistan
Sending troops into battle without enough effective body armor and IED resistant vehicles
War profiteering at the clear expense of the US troops
By stupidly invading and occupying Iraq, W meekly surrendered to Usama bin Laden, no other way around it, and the fact that W and the rest of his blithering Chickenhawk sheeple decry al-Qaeda while yawning off bin Laden is a logical impossibility
Then again, as Chickenhawks like Christie and the other W lackey trolls in this thread show, logic is something to be feared, not utilized
And Ron, how can you possibly equate sitting in the Oval office, taking part in the flat-out lies that got us into Iraq, to actually serving over in Iraq?
Go ahead, try and spin away, but as always, use logic, as the "just trust us" crap doesn't work coming from anyone working for, or who worked for, an Administration infested with lying, treasonous, Chickenhawk vermin
Comment by KingCranky — September 10, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
Tim, celebrate! In your opinion the Republican Party's demise is near. Halleluja! You're concerned about spending too much money on the war? Not to worry, Hillary and Barrack will fix that problem. This FIASCO is a godsend, isn't it? Continue to work for defeat and you will see wonderful fruits of your labor soon. It's only fair to call the judgment of Petraeus in question, after all wonderful generals like Casey and Abizaid would've long withdrawn our troops. Clearly the United States of America can't win in such a complex situation, it's only logical. In fact, Muslim fanatics will always have the upper hand, because after all, unlike you, they don't believe in logic, they simply fight to the death.
Tim, the situation may seem dire, but if you can only wait a little Bush and the Republicans will so discredit themselves, you will have the entire Congress AND the White House all to yourselves. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Now TRILLIONS can be spend on the war of poverty, that since the sixties has shown that the trillions already spent achieve WONDERFUL results. And the rich? Of course they will pay their FAIR SHARE, and then some. Serves them right for ripping off the LITTLE GUY. Tim, after poverty INTOLERANCE is the biggest problem in America. I urge you to continue the good fight for the rights of UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS and MUSLIMS. Tim, you're with the sane majority and I salute you!
Comment by Igor R. — September 10, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
What are you saying? We should fawn over anyone in a uniform and accept whatever they say without question?
Keep up the good work, Comrade…
Comment by A Hermit — September 10, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
Sorry, the American people have learned the hard way about spin and deception coming from the Bush team, and do certainly feel betrayed by the whole Iraq fiasco from its beginning. Petraeus was vulnerable to this rhyme of 'betray us', because of his name, but also because of his willingness to go to Congress with a report written by the White House. Colin Powell was another 'honorable' soldier who let his credibility be sacrificed to this history's worst Commander in Chief.
Comment by Donna — September 10, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Igor, your premise is nonsense, but I think that what you're hearing is that people of intellect would rather spend billions on the poor than to spend it killing our treasure and innocent people who never did anything to us.
Talk about spending, the parsimonious George Bush is more to your liking than Obama and your feared Hillary (get over it). This President has spent this country into oblivion, and now the people who are poisoning our food and our toys, holds our debt as well.
The model of government that you people support has been proven, particularly in these last seven years, to be a total failure, in all ways. You have ruined this country, and now it's up to our side, as it was so many times before, to right the wrongs.
But you will continue to karp at a smart woman who's running for President, continue to make foolish predictions about the fate of the Middle East and the world, and continue to attempt to win elections with gay bashing, poor bashing, and accusations of cowardice and treason.
You are a pathetic lot, all of you. You are epitomized by that arrogant, smirking General Bill Kristol, who has the absolute crust to go on FOX every Sunday and smirk and predict. You have made great fools of yourselves, and you have set back your cause for generations.
Comment by Chris Calbi — September 10, 2007 @ 7:55 pm
[…] Is there any way for us to know just how much The New York Times charged MoveOn.org for their full page "General Betray Us" advertisement today? Did they pay full price, or did they get a special, reduced rate? […]
Pingback by Media Mythbusters Blog » Blog Archive » At What Price? — September 10, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
I was using the term before Move on ever thought of it. Bush kept weeding out the dissenters until he found a patsy.
Comment by Gary Anderson — September 10, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Igor, I bet you are a little guy. And I also bet that when I was growing up Igor was not a name heard in my neighborhood. If you want to play the racist and ethnic card Igor, so can others.
I suggest you go back into the cubicle from which you came.
Comment by Gary Anderson — September 10, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
What I wopuld like to know is why is George Soros still doing in this country, if as was reported that he was convicted in france of a felony, and he's here advocating, the overthrow of our government. Why hasn't he been declared an UNDESIREABLE ALIAN and deported?Moveon.org needs to be disbanded, pewacefully if possible, violantly is desireable!
Comment by RangerRon — September 10, 2007 @ 10:16 pm
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Pingback by I am done with MoveOn.Org - The Detroit Times — September 10, 2007 @ 11:19 pm
I think it is safe to say that based upon Ron's posted lack of logic, and some of the crazies (Igor, Rich, Simmons) posting above, the neocons have been busted, and they now know it. They look, and sound, totally foolish, and without logic. Hah!
Comment by Lester — September 11, 2007 @ 12:17 am
Hey Ron, if it takes guts to wear the uniform, why aren't you wearing one? Why aren't you in Falujah? Chickenhawk? Just like Cheney "The Human Deferment"? Just as I thought; gutless.
You neocon nazis love cheering for war as long as you don't have any skin in the game.
Comment by Lester — September 11, 2007 @ 12:21 am
The MoveOn supporters are far from the pro-labor roots that started the Democratic Party. It is now the party of the Silicon Valley entitled, the Bay Area elite, who think nothing of outsourcing jobs, and demeaning our troops by running ads about an honorable general.
By aligning themselves with an element of the far left, the Democratic Party has done more harm than good to itself. There is no way a Democrat will win for President next year. And there is no reason they should.
Comment by PoliBeast — September 11, 2007 @ 12:24 am
Oh yes Donna, the American people getting their unbiased reporting from AP, Reuters, CNN, NYT learned a lot. I read an AP report yesterday listing the ongoing sub-conflicts in Iraq demonstrating the precariousness of the situation there. Sunnis turning on Al Qaeda was listed among them, as something indicating that sectarian violence is increasing. This is the unbiased news leading to the negative attitudes.
General Petraeus stated he wrote his report and it was not edited by anybody. You're calling him a liar, that's your right. I'm sure your whole life has been turned upside down buy this war and you're very war weary. Make sure you keep your ration card handy.
Comment by Igor R. — September 11, 2007 @ 2:12 am
Chris Calbi, this general unlike the others has a brain. Couple that with a desire to win and you get a hell of a good soldier. Mark my word, he'll be the President of the United States some day.
Your goal is for Bush to lose. No amount of data will convince you that the surge is succeeding. But remember, when you're blind to reality it comes back and surprises you.
Comment by Igor R. — September 11, 2007 @ 2:16 am
Donna — two points, (1) If you have credibly evidence (other than your say so) that the White House wrote the Petraeus report, by all means tell us all! (2) If you believe that Bush is the "worst Commander in Chief" in history, then you don't know your U.S. history very well.
Comment by John Simmons — September 11, 2007 @ 7:56 am
You ever go shopping, see something that you absolutely must have, spend more money than you really should for it, then get it back home and realize that you just spent a whole lot of money for something you'll probably seldom use?
That's called buyer's remorse. * (see footnote)
What Iraq is to Americans is a 600 Billion dollar debacle that, after we got it home (and let it sit around for four years collecting dust), realized that we just paid for something that means nothing to us. I mean honestly, A Democratic Iraq? Like I give a shit. I wouldn't even care if Canada decided to turn into a Fascist Theocracy. Al-Qaeda can set up a training camp anywhere from Dakar to Islamabad and all the money in the world can't stop that. All it takes is a piece of sand the size of a football field. We got 100,000 troops trying to cover 167,400 square miles of ground. Um….ok. Sounds like mission impossible to me. Always has, since the inception of this mismanaged war/occupation/police/action/unsanctioned military presence/geopolitcal conflict.
So if you want to change public opinion about Iraq it's simple. Either offer Americans (the consumer) a way to return their item and get their money back (lol), or somehow prove that they got their money's worth(rotfl).
But again, frankly, I wouldn't have spent a red penny on bringing peace to Iraq. That we spent 60 trillion of them is sort of…. well, insane. Putting pants on a monkey does not a man make. You can't give a nation democracy they must take it for themselves when they are ready.
And all we hear is, well we have to finish the job because if we leave this nightmare of sectarian violence now it will melt down into, um, into… well, a nightmare of sectarian violence. Oh, shit… right! Doh!
As much as the rock band RATM has been criticized as punk, ZDR once did hit upon the truth; "It seems as though America's economy [having grown economically unstable and outgrown it's borders] can only survive now by destroying another country and then profiteering off it's rebuilding".
So true. So very, very true.
Even still, with all that in mind, what will happen is that the government, lead by some numbskull, will just sink us all further into debt, alienate every civilized nation in the world, and then drag us all down into the depths of hell - cause life is unfair.
——————————-
*Of course the best case scenario is to say that it's buyer's remorse. But it's only buyer's remorse when the consumer WILLINGLY spends the money. Most times a person would refer to what happened in Iraq as the old con game "bait and switch". Remember Bush telling us Saddam could hit the U.S. with WMDs in 45 minutes time at any moment? Amazing right? Now that we see that their WMD stockpile was six rusty howitzer shells filled with ground up cayenne pepper. But even more amazing is that even after the truth came out, that the con-man still keeps playing the same tune. Is is, as they say, to laugh.
Comment by God — September 11, 2007 @ 10:05 am
Igor the data is in. The surge has failed. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking the President. The data that you refer to is totally flawed, in that it is contradicted by multiple other reports, and most importantly from the people on the ground.
Your side always rejects true data, be it scientific, sociological, or miltary related. You have taken yourselves so far from the truth, that you no longer have the ability to know it when you see it.
I count your predictions about the future President, the same way that I count your predictions for what this war was about, and what was supposed to happen. It's so interesting that all of you, not just General Kristol, continue to act like you have ever been right; particularly on the subject of the war or on the quality of George bush, before he was appointed President.
Comment by Chris Calbi — September 11, 2007 @ 10:33 am
Chris, the model of the government I support would be totally uninvolved in the economy, other than collecting flat taxes. You keep assigning preference to me that I don't have, I hope you'll stop doing this in the future.
Comment by Igor R. — September 11, 2007 @ 11:37 am
Chris, now why would you lump me with Kristol or Bush for that matter? I thought the war was lost until late January, when I changed my mind based on the evidence. I would also not fight the war by house-to-house fighting, although that certainly has it's advantages once you get through it: it antagonizes the population less than my preferred methods.
And here's for your perusal today's statement from the US Military (not Petraeus per se) about the rate of ethno-sectarian murders in Iraq:
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13942&Itemid=128
Comment by Igor R. — September 11, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
T0 the Grumpy Old Party regarding the Ad in the NYTimes I say move on! Get over it!
We are in serious danger of total anihilation.
If we have enough money to kill others , we have enough money to help others. We ARE in the eleventh hour! and I say stop the war and save our Planet!
Comment by Nancy Paquette — September 11, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
FLAT TAX…ugh…I shouldn't be surprised.
Here's a deal for you sir. I'll stop assigning these things to you when you stop echoing the mantras of the misguided radical Right. In particular, your vehement passion against Hillary Clinton, as if she were the devil. Get over it!
Second, they don't hate our freedom. They don't hate us, just like we didn't hate the German or Japanese or Korean people when we firebombed or nuked their cities. They want us out of the land that we have no right to. To them, it is solemn, and that's their belief. Also, it's their oil, and just because we can with firepower, we have no right to take it from them. More importantly, our quest for it spills the blood of our national treasure; the youth of the United States.
Comment by Chris Calbi — September 11, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
Collin Powell, who *was* far more honarble man than Petraeus, has admitted that he lied to sell the war. Both were/are being loyal to the commander-in-chief.
Comment by Maja — September 11, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
Igor, does someone pay you for all those worthless, boring, crazy, multiple postings? Holy smokes. Man, I can't make heads or tails of what all those rants.
What the hell is Igor talking about?
Igor, is the surge working? Can you name anyone who'd make a better President than Curious George Bush?
Perhaps Igor is a natering neocon.
Comment by Lester — September 12, 2007 @ 12:43 am
http://newcentrist.wordpress.com/2007/09/09/meaningless-terms-chickenhawk/
Meaningless Terms: Chickenhawk
Chickenhawk is a meaningless term. When I write meaningless, I mean without meaning. I am not implying that the term is unpopular, merely that is stupid.
The vast majority of the people who use this word claim you can’t be pro-military if you don’t (or didn’t) serve in the military. This is nonsensical. After all, to be for law and order must one serve in the police? If I support the expansion of public parks do I need to be a park ranger? Of course not. So why do people who use this inane word think the same (il)logic holds true for the military?
Comment by The New Centrist — September 12, 2007 @ 10:43 am
Chris, once again you're assigning things to me. I NEVER believed they hate us because of our freedom(s), even though that's supposed to be a right-wing talking point. They hate anybody who does not take direction from Koran. They also hate anybody who prevents them from achieving world dominance, and even more so those who prevent them from getting back to the original caliphate borders, from Spain to Central Asia. As I can discuss Islam ad infinitum I will stop here.
Back to the data, all the anecdotal evidence I see (well not all, there is this supposed ABC poll of Iraqis), coming from the independent journalists I trust, like Yon and Totten, who are definitely not Bush cronies seems to suggest we are winning the war. And pardon me if I think that various ultra-left-wingers to simply left-wingers, from MoveOn to Harry Reid to Pelosi to Feingold are NOT independent observers who hold the "real" data sacred. Anybody who listened to Feingold's questioning of Petraeus and Crocker has to come to the conclusion that he is a punk, with no equals, who didn't want to hear anything at all other than his own righteous accusatory voice. Honestly, I've NEVER heard a questioning like that before, this was something to behold!
Comment by Igor R. — September 12, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
Lester, the surge is working, and Fred Thompson will be a MUCH better President than Bush. Bush is reasonably smart, in spite of being portrayed as a chimp, and very persistent, but something is clinically wrong with his communication ability, he seems loyal for far too long to incompetent people, he seems to totally lack introspection, and has a curious attachment to illegal immigration and unifying North America in one block/government. Fred Thompson is thoughtful and obviously able to communicate.
Comment by Igor R. — September 12, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
Maja, I'm curious as to why you think that Powell was more honorable than Petraeus? Powerll was really liked by liberals up to a point, and got all wishy-washy in his old age, but how do you come to your conclusion?
Comment by Igor R. — September 12, 2007 @ 2:32 pm
Igor, I love it whe people assign the horrifying qualities of this little man in the WH, as somehow endearing, or just mildly or slightly flawed. Thanks for the laughs!
Your assesment of Feingold is the only one I could expect from you, because of your views. Those you view as patriots have destroyed the fibre of America, so how could you spot a patriot?
I appreciate the clarifications of where you stand when I stereotype you. You are principled and sincere in your beliefs. As I read your various posts, I see that much of the basis for your thoughts is based on a hatred of Radical Islam. This, too, is understandable but where you get off the track is that your extreme hate makes you endorse people who are exactly the same on our side.
Comment by Chris Calbi — September 16, 2007 @ 8:46 am
What FACTS did Moveon.org get wrong, in their ad? Is it, or is it not a FACT that prior to the '04 election, Petraeus was talking up the alleged progress in Iraq?
Is it, or is it not a FACT that the DoD has very funny notions of what does or does not constitute an assassination? ("shot in back of head" vs. "shot in front", for example?)
Again: What FACTS did Moveon.org get wrong? Until Moveon.org's critics can answer that question, they really have nothing positive to add to this discussion.
Comment by Steven Barger — September 20, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
For neocons to meaningfully say that the surge is "working"-doesn't that presuppose a "standard", indeed, a set of "benchmarks" of some kind, by which to judge the success or failure of the surge?
If the President wants to say whether, in another six months, the surge is "working", he will need to operationally define the term "working"; and he will need to offer that operational definition NOW, not six months from now. Without an OBJECTIVE standard, then neocon notions of what constitutes surge "success" are meaningless.
Thus: The slightest statistical dip will be seized, six months from now, as "evidence that the surge is working".
You neocons were the ones that started this war. Why are neocons so afraid of rational, commonsense benchmarks for Iraq?
Tell us NOW, in Sept. '07, what exactly are the BENCHMARKS by which the surge is to be judged, at the NEXT six-month review by Petraeus.
In the same way that liberals from the Great Society era failed to pre-ordain what BENCHMARKS were to be used to gauge the success or failure of the "War on Poverty", so today, neocons shy away from explicitly naming IN ADVANCE the objective benchmarks to be used to judge the success or failure of Bush's "surge".
We should be debating WHAT set of benchmarks should be set for gauging our progress; We should not be debating WHETHER there should be firm benchmarks. I want the neocons to look forward to the next Petraeus report and say, today,(Sept. '07) "The surge will be judged a failure if these objective, measurable benchmarks A, B, & C are not achieved by X date".
Comment by Steven Barger — September 20, 2007 @ 10:02 pm