August 14, 2008
John McCain on Russia: Angry, Bellicose, Belligerent and Extreme (Brent Budowsky)
John McCain needs to calm down, stop telling the world he speaks for the American people, stop escalating his warlike rhetoric almost by the hour, and stop the phony tough talk that makes a bad situation worse and would only heighten the danger at a dangerous enough moment.
McCain takes too much advice from a lobbyist who makes money paid for by Georgia. He takes too much bandwidth making threats that neither he nor President Bush nor any American president can back up without creating even more damage to American security and more danger to world security.
John McCain should stop talking as though he is the president, and Americans should and I predict will take note of the dangers he would bring, if he ever is the president.
This is true: The Georgians overreached and may have been misled, deliberately by misjudgment or accidentally by mistake, by George Bush and John McCain, into believing that the American military would support them, whatever they did.
This, too, is true: Vladimir Putin is a dangerous man indeed who wants to reconstitute as much of the Soviet empire as he can. We should have no illusions about the dangers caused by this former henchman of the KGB who has adopted repressive tactics at home and launched cruel actions and threats against democratically elected governments in what he believes should be Russia's sphere of influence and control.
This, too, is true: The Bush and McCain obsession with Iraq and Iran has not only done grave damage to our military force structures and deterrent, they have warped our international policy, endangered our national security and created a crisis of inattention from Pakistan to Russia that makes the world a far more dangerous place.
John McCain increasingly sounds like a right-wing blogger. His arrogance in claiming that he speaks for the American people during a dangerous crisis demonstrates greater hubris than anything he will accuse Obama of doing.
McCain's belligerence, bellicosity and bluster on Iraq and Iran and now Russia demonstrate clearly the dangers he would pose as commander in chief when his right-wing blog-like rhetoric could become American military policy in a dangerous world.
Let’s elect John McCain the president of the right-wing base of the Republican Party, where he can talk his talk of World War III while calmer, cooler and wiser heads walk the walk of protecting our national security.
Permalink TrackBack
Email This Post
Share this post
What's This 59 Comments
»
The Hill welcomes comment from anyone and will almost always post it whether it is favorable or critical, as long as it is substantive and advances debate.
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Obama released this initial statement, while playing golf, golf we can believe in, in Hawaii. “I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected. All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia, and the United States, the United Nations Security Council, and the international community should fully support a peaceful resolution to this crisis.”
In the meantime, John McCain, who had the stage all to himself thanks to Obama’s golf journey, issued this statement.
“Today, news reports indicate that Russian military forces crossed an internationally-recognized border into the sovereign territory of Georgia. Russia should immediately and unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory. What is most critical now is to avoid further confrontation between Russian and Georgian military forces. The consequences for Euro-Atlantic stability and security are grave.
“The government of Georgia has called for a cease-fire and for a resumption of direct talks on South Ossetia with international mediators. The U.S. should immediately convene an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council to call on Russia to reverse course. The U.S. should immediately work with the EU and the OSCE to put diplomatic pressure on Russia to reverse this perilous course it has chosen. We should immediately call a meeting of the North Atlantic Council to assess Georgia’s security and review measures NATO can take to contribute to stabilizing this very dangerous situation. Finally, the international community needs to establish a truly independent and neutral peacekeeping force in South Ossetia.”
Irrespective of the initial quotes the war on words continued. McCain spoke Tuesday with Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili. "I told him that I know I speak for every American when I said to him, 'Today, we are all Georgians.'"
Obama continued with “No matter how this conflict started, Russia has escalated it well beyond the dispute over South Ossetia and invaded another country. Russia has escalated its military campaign through strategic bombing and the movement of its ground forces into the heart of Georgia. There is no possible justification for these attacks”
This situation appears to follow the pattern that has established itself between the Obama campaign and the McCain campaign, i.e., Obama establishes a weak position and then gravitates to the McCain position, indicating that McCain is the stronger leader.
Liberals will dispute this, but another example of this situation occurred after McCain called for drilling off the coasts. Obama opposed this position but then gravitated to it.
It’s obvious that Obama is just an empty suit, who changes positions contemporaneously as opposed to establishing a position and holding to it.
Comment by Robert Rosencrans — August 14, 2008 @ 10:08 am
It was arrogant, false, presumptuous and
the greatest hubris for McCain to falsely
state that he speaks for all Americans and
it is false and wrong to state "we are all
Georgians". We are not all Georgians. Georgia
bears a significant responsiblity in this
situation. I know very well the evils of
Putin, more than most people from my own
personal experience which I wont discuss
here. I have no sympathy for what the Russians
have done and are doing and we need to find
some policy to respond. But McCain's hot
talk, military braggadocio, and phony threats
that cannot back up are nothing more than
right wing blog talk that would cause big
trouble for world security if McCain does
as President what he spouts on the campaign
trails.
Comment by Brent — August 14, 2008 @ 10:38 am
RR;
You do know that McCain's advisor Randy Schuenemann has made close to a million dollars lobbying for Georgia. As such mcCain's rhetoric is reflecting his advisor views rather than his own. Georgia President recently asked McCain to back up his rhetoric with action. Now I'm going to ask you - where is McCain suppose to get these forces? Are you and your merry band of chickenhawks ready to go to Georgia to help McCain out or are you one of teh 10st Fighting keyboard commandos? What MCCain did was stupid and unwarranted. He is not the CIC and eventhough he acted like it, he can't command the military and he shouldn't make promises that he can't keep. By the way, I'm an American - not Georgian and McCain to claim that BS on our behalf shows me that he is uppity - not Obama.
Comment by Mike Coleman — August 14, 2008 @ 10:59 am
Below, I posted two very good articles on the Georgia conflict which are insightful and illuminating on the current controvery between Russia and Georgia — that it might have been stoked to influence the presidential election coming up.
Excerpt from Truth Dig By Robert Scheer, Aug. 12, 2008;
"Is it possible that this time the October surprise was tried in August, and that the garbage issue of brave little Georgia struggling for its survival from the grasp of the Russian bear was stoked to influence the U.S. presidential election?
Before you dismiss that possibility, consider the role of one Randy Scheunemann, for four years a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government who ended his official lobbying connection only in March, months after he became Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s senior foreign policy adviser. Previously, Scheunemann was best known as one of the neoconservatives who engineered the war in Iraq when he was a director of the Project for a New American Century. It was Scheunemann who, after working on the McCain 2000 presidential campaign, headed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which championed the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
There are telltale signs that he played a similar role in the recent Georgia flare-up. How else to explain the folly of his close friend and former employer, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, in ordering an invasion of the breakaway region of South Ossetia, an invasion that clearly was expected to produce a Russian counterreaction? It is inconceivable that Saakashvili would have triggered this dangerous escalation without some assurance from influential Americans he trusted, like Scheunemann, that the United States would have his back. Scheunemann long guided McCain in these matters, even before he was officially running foreign policy for McCain’s presidential campaign. In 2005, while registered as a paid lobbyist for Georgia, Scheunemann worked with McCain to draft a congressional resolution pushing for Georgia’s membership in NATO. A year later, while still on the Georgian payroll, Scheunemann accompanied McCain on a trip to that country, where they met with Saakashvili and supported his bellicose views toward Russia’s Vladimir Putin.
Yes, it sounds diabolical, but that may be the most accurate way to assess the designs of the McCain campaign in matters of war and peace. There is every indication that the candidate’s demonization of Russian leader Putin is an even grander plan than the previous use of Saddam to fuel American militarism with the fearsome enemy that it desperately needs. McCain gets to look tough with a new Cold War to fight while Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, scrambling to make sense of a more measured foreign policy posture, will seem weak in comparison. Meanwhile, the dire consequences of the Bush legacy that McCain has inherited, from the disaster of Iraq to the economic meltdown, conveniently will be ignored. But the military-industrial complex, which has helped bankroll the neoconservatives, will be provided with an excuse for ramping up a military budget that is already bigger than that of the rest of the world combined. "
AND:
A Path to Peace in the Caucasus, Excerpt: By Mikhail Gorbachev - WashingtonPost.com
Tuesday, August 12, 2008:
MOSCOW — The past week's events in South Ossetia are bound to shock and pain anyone. Already, thousands of people have died, tens of thousands have been turned into refugees, and towns and villages lie in ruins. Nothing can justify this loss of life and destruction. It is a warning to all. The roots of this tragedy lie in the decision of Georgia's separatist leaders in 1991 to abolish South Ossetian autonomy. This turned out to be a time bomb for Georgia's territorial integrity. Each time successive Georgian leaders tried to impose their will by force — both in South Ossetia and in Abkhazia, where the issues of autonomy are similar — it only made the situation worse. New wounds aggravated old injuries. Nevertheless, it was still possible to find a political solution. For some time, relative calm was maintained in South Ossetia. The peacekeeping force composed of Russians, Georgians and Ossetians fulfilled its mission, and ordinary Ossetians and Georgians, who live close to each other, found at least some common ground.
Through all these years, Russia has continued to recognize Georgia's territorial integrity. Clearly, the only way to solve the South Ossetian problem on that basis is through peaceful means. Indeed, in a civilized world, there is no other way. The Georgian leadership flouted this key principle.
What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas. Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against "small, defenseless Georgia" is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity.
Mounting a military assault against innocents was a reckless decision whose tragic consequences, for thousands of people of different nationalities, are now clear. The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force. Georgian armed forces were trained by hundreds of U.S. instructors, and its sophisticated military equipment was bought in a number of countries. This, coupled with the promise of NATO membership, emboldened Georgian leaders into thinking that they could get away with a "blitzkrieg" in South Ossetia.
In other words, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili was expecting unconditional support from the West, and the West had given him reason to think he would have it. Now that the Georgian military assault has been routed, both the Georgian government and its supporters should rethink their position. Hostilities must cease as soon as possible, and urgent steps must be taken to help the victims — the humanitarian catastrophe, regretfully, received very little coverage in Western media this weekend — and to rebuild the devastated towns and villages. It is equally important to start thinking about ways to solve the underlying problem, which is among the most painful and challenging issues in the Caucasus — a region that should be approached with the greatest care.
not just in the Caucasus.
The writer was the last president of the Soviet Union. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990 and is president of the Gorbachev Foundation
Comment by angellight — August 14, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
Just imagine if Obama would have made the statements Grampy McSame made ("we're all Georgians") as though he was POTUS. McSame is getting delirious trying to impress his band of lobbyist/supporters with his bellicoe, neocon rhetoric. The base of the GOP is now multi-national oil companies and the industrial war complex. You'd have to be a crack head to support Grampy.
Comment by Jesse Templeton — August 14, 2008 @ 12:20 pm
McCain is allright on this topic. Tough talk raises the stakes, because the other side doesn't know whether it will be followed by action. I've read some of the Russian media (for domestic consumption) and they could put the right wing bloggers here to shame. What they call the Georgians and especially their president is just unbelievable. They see no problem in tough talk, and they never had any that came from tough talk.
Comment by Igor R. — August 14, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
McCain's tough talk is nothing but hot air, as there's absolutely nothing the US can do to eject Russia from Georgia, or the G8 for that matter, as such an expulsion would require a unanimous vote from the membership, including Russia itself. The chances that Russia would agree to it's own expulsion are rather slim and dim indeed.
McCain's alleged "foreign policy experience" has proven itself to be completely ineffective in dealing with Russia, and the longer McCain keeps up such easily-debunked rhetoric, the less competent he shows himself.
Comment by KingCranky — August 14, 2008 @ 12:25 pm
Here's the fat news. Russia has an economy the size of Illinois.
Screw-em
Comment by Jim — August 14, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
Jim;
Their economy may be that of Illinois but their military is more than a match for ours, screw you.
Comment by Mike Coleman — August 14, 2008 @ 1:11 pm
Every barrel of oil that Obama and Pelosi does not allow to be extracted offshore or from Alaska, we'll have to buy from Russia or Iran providing them with a necessary capital to enhance their military machine. I can't understand if this pair is naive, stupid or outright treasonous.
Comment by Misha — August 14, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Brent,
stop talking like Neville Chamberlain. You are making a fool of yourself. We must have a leader who'd stand up for freedom and liberty, even in the face of mortal danger. If necessary, we shall destroy this planet rather than give in to Muslim terrorists or Russian aggressors.
Comment by Misha — August 14, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
Misha;
You and your neocon nuts have stepped in the big pile this time. That is all McCain is - bluster and bluffing. He has no Army to command. He has no Navy and to make teh assumption that we are all Georgian sounds real uppity to me. When did American elected McCain president? We didn't and after this out of control outburst, we won't. McCain took advise from his lobbyist advisor who made a lot of money lobbying MCCain for Georgia and now what can he do? Talk and that is it. I glad this happened because it shows America you is better in a crisis.
Comment by Mike Coleman — August 14, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
Hey Misha, you're the one willing to trade away liberties by supporting the Cheney/Bush junta. Furthermore, Misha, if you think offshore Alaska will replace Russian hydrocarbons, your just as stupid as most of us have been suspecting for some time now. Additionally, you voted twice for the worst President in the history of Our country, twice, and now you think you can offer up some sound avice? Yea right. Consider sitting this election out and letting the grownups right the ship
Comment by Lester — August 14, 2008 @ 3:41 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrP9n0fKl0o&feature=related
"Did US, Israel Provateur S. Ossetia Conflict?"
It's Bush, Rove, McBush & his Georgian Lobbyist, who wants to make this a big deal. And the Georgian President…
Also I've heard that this "Manfuctured crisis" is actually about the US Missile Shield… This is so sick!!!
Comment by P KIRBY — August 14, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
Re Igor #6:
Great - the unbridled homicidal lunatic theory of foreign policy.
Do you reichwingers ever even think about the mindless crap you spew, or are you simply like Pavlov's dogs, drooling on cue when Brent rings his bell?
Comment by Michael — August 14, 2008 @ 5:57 pm
@ Misha - #10:
Dude, we have 3% of the planet's oil reserves, and all the innane political posturing by the Do-Nothing Repugnants will never alter that equation.
Comment by Michael — August 14, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
@ Misha - #11:
What color is the sky on your planet??
I bet you see bomb-throwing Muslims hiding behind the bushes in your neighbor's yard.
They do have meds that can help you with this condition, y'know.
Comment by Michael — August 14, 2008 @ 6:03 pm
Yes, P KIRBY, the US has provoked EVERYTHING bad in the world. If the US could quietly hide under a bed and not make a peep, all the worlds' dictators would turn the other cheek and sing kumbaya with the smallest nations of the world. Long live the progressive delusions!
Comment by Igor R. — August 14, 2008 @ 6:18 pm
Mike! LOL:
My point was; a reasoned and intelligent response was more in order than anything the republicans have mustered. We have nothing to fear from the Russians. (actually never have) and the Georgian's fate is no more our business than the Iraqi's
Comment by Jim — August 14, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
I do not believe that the Russia move on
Georgia was orchestrated as an October
suprise event to help Republicans. Though
I definitely believe an October surprise
is very possible if Bush thinks it would be
necessary. This one, though, is real and
in fact more dangerous because it is real.
This was miscalculation and this is how
major wars get started, through a combination
of aggression and miscalculation. Regarding
Misha's comment, spare me the Neville
Chamberlain talk. I have been a super-patriot
support of the military and intelligence
communities since you were wearing short
pants playing badminton. I just don't
support bad wars. Nor do most military
leaders.
Comment by Brent — August 14, 2008 @ 6:29 pm
Misha: You can tell how accurate your comments are by the hateful remarks made by the lunatic Nazis who post a response.
Comment by Robert Rosencrans — August 14, 2008 @ 6:53 pm
The best piece written on this topic by far is from Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.
"President Bush, Will You Please Shut Up?"
…The entire world, except for Americans, knows that the outbreak of armed conflict between Russian and Georgian forces in South Ossetia was entirely due to the US and its Georgia puppet, Saakashvili. Americans, alone in the world, are unaware that the hostilities were initiated by Saakashvili, because Bush, Cheney and the Israeli-occupied American media have again lied to them.
Everyone else in the world knows that the unstable and corrupt Saakashvili, who proclaims democracy and runs a police state, would not have taken on Russia by attacking South Ossetia unless given the go-ahead by Washington.
http://pundits.thehill.com/2008/08/14/john-mccain-on-russia-angry-bellicose-belligerent-and-extreme/#comments
** Our corporate media is once again acting as a propaganda organ for the administration. When will they have their broadcasting licenses revoked and be charged with war crimes? Must we wait for the nuclear bombs to start falling!!
Comment by wewillnotbeneoconned — August 14, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
RR
Have you had your tin foil hat adjusted recently?
Comment by Jim — August 14, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
What is being printed in Russia's Pravda about the American led Georgian attack on Ossetia?
…Americans may think they are a superpower before whose presence the world trembles. But not the Russians.
Those Americans stupid enough to think that America’s “superpower” insures its citizens from danger need to read the total contempt shown for President Bush in Pravda:
“President Bush,
Why don’t you shut up? In your statement on Monday regarding the legitimate actions of the Russian Federation in Georgia, you failed to mention the war crimes perpetrated by Georgian military forces, which American advisors support, against Russian and Ossetian civilians
“President Bush,
Why don’t you shut up? Your faithful ally, Mikhail Saakashvili, was announcing a ceasefire deal while his troops, with your advisors, were massing on Ossetia’s border, which they crossed under cover of night and destroyed Tskhinvali, targeting civilian structures just like your forces did in Iraq.
“President Bush,
Why don’t you shut up? Your American transport aircraft gave a ride home to thousands of Georgian soldiers from Iraq directly into the combat zone.
“President Bush,
Why don’t you shut up? How do you account for the fact that among the Georgian soldiers fleeing the fighting yesterday you could clearly hear officers using American English giving orders to “Get back inside” and how do you account for the fact that there are reports of American soldiers among the Georgian casualties?
“President Bush,
Why don’t you shut up? Do you really think anyone gives any importance whatsoever to your words after 8 years of your criminal and murderous regime and policies? Do you really believe you have any moral ground whatsoever and do you really imagine there is a single human being anywhere on this planet who does not stick up his middle finger every time you appear on a TV screen?
Do you really believe you have the right to give any opinion or advice after Abu Ghraib? After Guantanamo? After the massacre of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens? After the torture by CIA operatives?
Do you really believe you have any right to make a statement on any point of international law after your trumped-up charges against Iraq and the subsequent criminal invasion?
“President Bush,
Why don’t you shut up? Suppose Russia for instance declares that Georgia has weapons of mass destruction? And that Russia knows where these WMD are, namely in Tblisi and Poti and north, south, east and west of there? And that it must be true because there is ‘magnificent foreign intelligenc’ such as satellite photos of milk powder factories and baby cereals producing chemical weapons and which are currently being ‘driven around the country in vehicles’? Suppose Russia declares for instance that ‘Saakashvili stiffed the world’ and it is ‘time for regime change’?
Nice and simple, isn’t it, President Bush?
** Sorry for the exceptionally long post but Americans need to know how the Russians feel about our meddling in their former satellite countries.
Comment by wewillnotbeneoconned — August 14, 2008 @ 7:11 pm
Rosencrat, put the crack pipe down and back away. You obviously voted for the stooge too. Probably twice, and we will remember.
Misha, you are a part of the problem too. Rush has you wrapped around his little finger. Dittohead!
Comment by Dwayne M — August 14, 2008 @ 7:17 pm
Every barrel of oil that Obama and Pelosi does not allow to be extracted offshore or from Alaska, we'll have to buy from Russia or Iran…
Comment by Misha — August 14, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
** Join me Misha. I buy all my oil only from Citgo. You can help Hugo Chavez, a Democratically elected President, held in high regard by Venezuela's citizens, build a strong country and economy. He is focused on helping the poorest in his country, who've been forgotten for more than a hundred years.
I'd be willing to bet that you're buying a lot of Saudi oil. Thus helping an unDemocratic country that treats women brutally and supplied most of the 9/11 hijackers according to the official story. They also teach their schoolchildren to hate America.
Comment by wewillnotbeneoconned — August 14, 2008 @ 7:35 pm
The writer was the last president of the Soviet Union. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990 and is president of the Gorbachev Foundation
Comment by angellight — August 14, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
** And the corporate controlled media in this country has made sure that the obvious truth from the two pieces you posted will NEVER be broadcast to the American masses. NEVER.
"Whoever controls the media controls the country. Period"
Comment by wewillnotbeneoconned — August 14, 2008 @ 7:43 pm
wewillnotbeneoconned,
are you joking about strongman Chavez being democratically elected? If not, you are complete lunatic, feel free to leave USA anytime you wish.
Comment by Misha — August 15, 2008 @ 2:48 am
Sounds like a bunch of left wing nutocons had too much kool aide as a child.
Comment by wewillallbeconned — August 15, 2008 @ 8:12 am
Dwayne M: You're threatening people because of how they voted? You from the Soviet Union or are you just low life psychopathic scum? Which is apparently what you are and do best. That's what people will remember about you, you first rate lunatic.
Comment by wewillallbeconned — August 15, 2008 @ 8:17 am
One issue that must be addressed is the
matter of including Georgia in NATO. There
are valid arguments pro and con. But if
Georgia were in NATO today, the US and other
NATO nations would be obligated by treaty
to go to war with Russia, today, over Georgia.
There would be Americans and Russians shooting
each other in Russia's geographic home field,
far from us, at a time when the US military
is radically overextended in Iraq and
Afghanistan. This does not mean we should
not admit Georgia into NATO but it does mean
we need a serious discussion by serious people
about it and understand the consquences. John
McCain can play the superhawk all he wants.
He can be the superhawk on Iraq and threaten
military action against Iran and threaten
Russia by the hour. Where will be get the
troops? Who will pay for this? What about
how these various McCain threats and actions
could send oil to $200 a barrel and create
havoc in our economy even worse than what
we face today? We do need an effective
response to Russia and Iran and other trouble
spots. But angry war like rhetoric without
the means to back it up is little more than
cartoon neoconservatism in a very dangerous
world and we have learned under Bush what
the consequences are. Anyone who wants to
comment about how we should fight this war
or that war, or who we should threaten, should
answer these questions about who fights these
wars, and how, and who pays for it, and how
much economic backlash we are willing to
accept. Those who talk so casually about
the winds of war, have too much wind, and
not enough understanding of war.
Comment by Brent — August 15, 2008 @ 8:44 am
I love how the liberal idiot posters here try to deflect the issue instead of dealing with substance.
#3 Mikey is a pro at this. My answer to you is, so? Who cares if he received money? Does that negate his response to the attacks?
Obama was just plain caught off guard. his handlers couldn't write his comments and he attempted to go it alone to a "can't we just get along" Carter-like statement. Blah.
McCain on the other hand called for:
1. Economic and humanitarian aid to Georgia.
2. Diplomatic talks led by sec of State.
3. Emx meeting of G-7
4. Persuasion of Russia to withdraw troops and cease fire.
And Obama golfed.
Probably the one single opportunity Obama could have had to show he had SOME measure of foreign policy moxie and presidential leadership. Instead he was a no-show.
McCain's recommendations were spot on and irrelevant to whether or not he or anyone in his campaign received money from Georgian sources. Your implication is, he defended Georgia BECAUSE money was associated with his campain. Sorry Mikey, what he said was just plain right.
As for #2 Brent, his inability to understand literary METAPHOR belies his bias and inability to be objective. As I recall, McCain didn't say HE was doing anything. I do believe they were recommendations for the US.
I do understand though your frustration with Obama losing the media top slot to McCain over this. He chose Golf, McCain chose to be involved in a solution to the crisis. Priorities. Obama has his, McCain has his as well. The difference is Obama's will cost him….
Comment by ObamaNOT — August 15, 2008 @ 10:03 am
Brent, #31.
If Georgia were a NATO member there would be NO invasion. When is the last time Russia has invaded a NATO member?
Comment by Misha — August 15, 2008 @ 11:15 am
ObamaNOT has his John Conley records playing in the background as he posts. Let's all sing along for ObamaNOT;
"But these rose colored glasses, that I'm looking through, show only the beauty, cause they hide all the truth,,,,,,,,,"
Comment by Mattie May — August 15, 2008 @ 11:18 am
Obamanut;
John McCain has been roundly criticizes for his war talk and his envoys. When did we elect McCain president? We didn't and where is he going to get teh troops. I figure that you, a fan of McCain, is willing to suit up and go to Georgia to back up you man's tough talk - right! If not, why not. Don't just talk tough here, get Georgia on your mind and fight.
Comment by Mike Coleman — August 15, 2008 @ 2:52 pm
Obama has no more responsibility to solve this crisis than would any other member of the Senate. Stop treating him as if he is already the POTUS. He will be soon enough.
Perhaps, and this will sound like a novel idea to some, the war there is their own business to sort out and Americans, who likely created the problem, should butt the *&*^ out.
Comment by Shlomo — August 15, 2008 @ 4:20 pm
Brent, great post, spot on.
Now you've gone and got all 5 lunatic-fringe members (RR, Igor, Misha, Penberton, ObamaNot), of the neocon wing of your fan club, all worked up in a tizzy. They all have their panties in a bunch. Geez this is fun.
The crazed spewing of the neocon, dittohead talking points will only get louder and more deranged and crazed the closer the elections gets. It really is fun and entertaining to observe these neocons jumping off the cliff of reason like a bunch of lemmings. Feehery, you should go ahead and chime in here too.
Comment by Dwayne Mac — August 15, 2008 @ 4:52 pm
Yea, ObamaNut, you sound all brave, go for it, pick up a gun and go all mercenary on all those russians. Smoke-em-out. Wanted dead or alive. You lead the way and "we'll" follow. You're either with us or against us. Yee-haaa. What would John Wayne do? Work in the shadows like your guru Darth Cheney. Kill em all now! What would your spiritual guru, Rush, do?
Comment by TigerT — August 15, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
Shlomo, Obama is not the POTUS. He's a Putzmeister-in-Chief made completely irrelevant by the current events while he's surfing in Hawaii. What a schmuck you have as a nominee, :).
Comment by Metamucil — August 15, 2008 @ 6:04 pm
#32 Obama isn't even the official nominee for his party yet. If he'd have foolishly cancelled his trip to address the situation, you'd say he was being "presumptuous" or "interfering" with the president's role. You folks are never satisfied!
Comment by Melissa — August 15, 2008 @ 6:45 pm
#28 Misha, let me help educate you.
from McClatchy, Dec. 6 2006:
Venezuela's Election Provides Opportunity for Washington to Change Course
by Mark Weisbrot
President Hugo Chavez's landslide victory in Sunday's election provides an opportunity to open a new chapter of US-Venezuelan relations. It was one of the most internationally monitored elections in recent memory, with observers from the Organization of American States and the European Union once again approving the results and the process. This is the fourth time that Chavez has stood for election and won, if we include the recall referendum of August 2004, which he won by a similar margin. As the famous Brazilian sociologist Helio Jaguaribi recently remarked, Chavez is "the most elected president in the hemisphere."
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1206-33.htm
** I understand you think Democracy means voter rolls scrubbed of ethnic names, easily hackable voting machines with proprietary codes and no means of audit and exit polls kept secret by the major media. If only the international community certified our elections like they have in Venezuela.
Comment by wewillnotbeneoconned — August 15, 2008 @ 7:23 pm
"If necessary, we shall destroy this planet rather than give in to Muslim terrorists or Russian aggressors."
There you go. The insanity of the far right neo-cons revealed. Nothing more needs to be said there.
The facts are a bit more complex that good guys-bad guys here. (Not unlike the centuries old rivalries in the Middle East.) To attempt to simplify them into a simple hollywood movie plot is risking another fiasco like the Iraq war.
And more, Russia knows we are no longer any threat. Our army is kind of tied up in two other unnecessary wars right now.
To Robert and Igor and the rest of the "macho", posing neo-cons…guys, you have serious manhood issues. The real tough guys don't need to prove it or incessantly talk about it, they just get the job done. That's why Democrats are consistently better leaders.
Comment by mkochinski — August 15, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
By the way, Robert, where's the current President of the United States, the man actually responsible during these trying times?
Oh, that's right. On vacation.
Well, at least he's consistent. Katrina, the lead up to Sept. 11th…Bush would never let a crisis interfere with vacation time.
Comment by mkochinski — August 15, 2008 @ 8:55 pm
"John McCain needs to calm down"
Should McCain have gone golfing in Hawaii, like Obama did?
We can debate the merits of McCain's proposals. But one thing is clear: He was ready and able to act IMMEDIATELY on this crisis. While Obama couldn't even interrupt his golf vacation in Hawaii long enough to put this issue on the front burner. I guess he just doesn't consider it as important as, say, making par.
Obama playing golf while a U.S. ally is under ballistic missile attack from the Russians, is Obama's equivalent of Bush reading "My Pet Goat" during the 9-11 attack.
McCain was ready to act immediately. Obama took three days. And Bush wasn't much better.
As we saw on 9-11, we don't have the luxury of three days in a crisis.
I don't want a President with that "deer in the headlights" look in a crisis, ever again. Not Bush. And DEFINITELY not Obama.
Comment by SteveL — August 16, 2008 @ 12:08 am
Obama playing golf while a U.S. ally is under ballistic missile attack from the Russians, is Obama's equivalent of Bush reading "My Pet Goat" during the 9-11 attack.
Comment by SteveL — August 16, 2008 @ 12:08 am
** You've got it all backwards because you don't check your news from multiple sources. Ossetia was under attack from Georgia. Got it. Ossetia was under attack from Georgia. Russia responded. While I abhor any violence we must get the facts straight.
The tough questions need to be asked. Why were Georgian soldiers being flown back from Iraq by American forces. What role if any did Randy Schuenemann, McCain advisor and former Georgian lobbyist have to do with this oddly timed attack by Georgia? How is it that American military were seen fleeing after the Russians responded? Why were they there in the first place.
Comment by wewillnotbeneoconned — August 16, 2008 @ 10:43 am
Oil and the Republican Propaganda Machine.
Oil Companies are not drilling on leases they have because of a shortage of Drilling Equipment and personnel. It has nothing to do with adding more areas to lease.
Oil Companies have already seismograph our ocean bottoms and only lease areas of interest and possible oil. This is done before a lease is purchased.
They have 44 million acres of leased potential Oil producing locations but do not have any means to drill them.
"Chevron Jack 2″ in the Gulf of Mexico can be used to begin some research on the subject. Or just google, "Drilling rig shortage."
Comment by Donaldd — August 16, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
mkochinski, you'll say anything to minimize anybody's aggressive impulses other than the US and perhaps Israel. You are psychologically unable to see any threats other than coming from the US Republican administration. Denial of the first order.
Comment by Igor R. — August 16, 2008 @ 3:53 pm
"mkochinski, you'll say anything to minimize anybody's aggressive impulses other than the US and perhaps Israel. You are psychologically unable to see any threats other than coming from the US Republican administration. Denial of the first order."
Really? What on earth do you base that conclusion on? What's your evidence? Have you asked me that question? Where can you quote me that the only threat I see is from Republicans?
This is the basic problem with conservatives. They make conclusions based on imaginary suppositions. This is why they can't argue on facts. They can't separate what they WANT to be true from what is true.
If you want my opinion, Igor, I would tell you that Georgia committed aggressive acts and then Russia committed aggressive acts. I disapprove of both.
None of which has anything to do with anything I said previously, nor does it affect my conclusions, that this is more complex than just good guys and bad guys.
I guess conservatives get comfort from an over-simplified view of everything.
Comment by mkochinski — August 16, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
Where is Obama in all of this?
Out of the way, that is where, like every Senator should be. It is the President's job to handle these kinds of situations. Last time I checked, Obama wasn't President. Neither is John McCain.
Comment by godlessmath — August 16, 2008 @ 5:50 pm
#35 Mikey,
I suited up for 25 years. If my country called me out of retirement to suit up again if it was necessary, I'd go as I have before. What about you, or would you be singing the Canadian national anthem?
Comment by ObamaNOT — August 18, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
mkochinski, I admit I "reconstructed" your position based on some arguments in the past. I'll be glad to hear the list of the important foreign threats you can see.
Your description of the Russian-Georgian conflict is a little bit removed from the truth and little too close to the Russian propaganda for my liking. Maybe some day you can figure out than when they are intensifying the shooting campaign against you and massing a huge force on your border, responding may or may not be foolish but it's hardly "committing aggressive acts" first.
Comment by Igor R. — August 18, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
It seems, Igor, we have different sources for the description of the Russian-Georgian conflict. None of mine is from Russian propaganda, however, it's all very clear in the media. The deaths from the Georgia attack are confirmed at 44, the Russians and the Ossetians claim thousands more.
I'm not saying Russia's reply was right, and I'm not saying Georgia's attack was right.
Even Fox News had an interview with a little girl thanking Russia for defending Ossetia.
But again, it's a complex issue, which you seem to be able to simplify it to your own satisfaction.
The most important threat to America is intenal - and it is ignorance. From ignorance stems hatred, fear, racism, etc. The only known cure is education.
Externally or internally, in terms of violence, religious extremists are the most dangerous elements for the moment. They are more of a threat than any conventional military, though both China and Russia still have enough firepower to do some damage.
The lack of a conventional army and the ability to strike autonomously are a major part of what makes them dangerous. In fact, I believe the Bush administration was warned of exactly this upon taking office.
Once again, in the longest of all possible runs, education and prosperity are the only things that will ultimately triumph over fanaticism, though violence in the short run can minimize the damage.
There is also economic warfare, and our current policy of giving economic dominance to both China and the Oil cartel is very dangerous.
Comment by mkochinski — August 18, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
mkochinski, these thankful little girls are "manufactured" for all occasions. There used to be little girls that thanked Hitler for liberating the Ukraine from the Soviet Union.
There was an immediate casualty figure of "1400″ civilian victims of the Georgian "aggression". None of it has been independently verified, and anybody who is familiar with war zones like South Osetia where their entire capital was decimated by either the Georgian "aggression" or Russian bombs, according to who you chose to believe would know that to know the number of victims so precisely so soon is just impossible. Could be 200, could be 10,000.
Nobody in their right mind will believe that the Russian attack force could be assembled in less than several weeks. For months prior to the attack, infrastructure improvements in South Osetia and Abhazia that helped the invasion were being put in place.
The Georgian President in a Russian language interview I read in what remains of the mild "opposition" media in Russia denied that any of his fighters shot point-blank at civilians as is alleged by Russia. In the more official Russian media sources, that remind me of the old Soviet newspapers now, the Georgian president is described in terms suitable for psychotic mass murderers, and he is supposedly gone mad in terms of cracking under stress
Your statement that China and Russia still have enough firepower is mostly notable for the word "still". China is building up its naval force and the military in general at such a rapid clip as to cause public explanations from the US. And the Russian bear has just tasted blood. Russia has also been sabotaging just about every American foreign policy initiative for years.
While the Islamic extremist is one of the biggest source of danger in the world, neither extremist Christians nor Buddhists represent any kind of threat to world stability.
Comment by Igor R. — August 18, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
Yes, Igor, Fox News is famous for presenting Russian propaganda. It's a well known fact.
Commie sympathizers, all.
Georgia has been tweaking Russia for some time, and it's well known Russia had troops built up on the border. Their internal strife is ages old and more complex than just good guys and bad guys. Both sides knew the balloon was going up at some point, Georgia took a change and got burned badly. Both sides have committed serious errors.
Of course Russia sabotages US foreign policy, just as we undermine other countries whom we percieve as acting against us.
Here's a small bit of information for you: Every country acts in what it thinks is its own best interest. If you can't figure that one out, you'll never be able to understand how to manipulate your enemies.
To me there's no difference between Islamic and Christian terrorists, beyond that one used planes to destroy buildings and the other used explosives. (Oklahoma City, Ireland) The god is interchangeable when you use it justify murder.
It's just another excuse for violence.
Buddhism doesn't really have a belief system that would support acts of terror, though I'm sure someone could find a way to twist it if they worked hard enough.
I know you have a fear of certain races and belief systems, but if you really want to defeat them, you need to make it clear to them that your survival is in their best interest, and that they benefit from your existence.
With enough exposure and interaction, eventually the "different" will seem like less of a threat and the two perspectives will learn to live together. That's how it works in America. The Micks don't fight the Wops anymore, and the Pollack jokes of my youth have pretty much disappeared. There's still work that needs to be done, but we're getting there.
If, on the other hand, you try to suppress or obliterate another culture, you'll end up with another Russia/Georgia situation - a minority holding back a grudge for decades until it explodes. It's a historic lesson that gets repeated time after time. The Balkans. Iraq under Hussein.
Oppression doesn't work. Cooperation does. Our bitterest enemies from 70 years ago are now our closest allies. I can show you where at one time we thought they "weren't human" or "don't value human life like we do"and best of all, I can show you where we called their leader "Hitler" - and we were right!
They are our allies because once we defeated their leaders we no longer felt the need to wipe out their culture.
I believe there's something we can learn from that.
Comment by mkochinski — August 18, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
While the Islamic extremist is one of the biggest source of danger in the world, neither extremist Christians nor Buddhists represent any kind of threat to world stability.
Comment by Igor R. — August 18, 2008 @ 4:56 pm
** The neo-conservatist cHristians are the greatest threat the world has ever known. Anyone who subscribes to the doctrine of preemptive nuclear war is a psychopath.
Comment by wewillnotbeneoconned — August 19, 2008 @ 10:42 am
I blogged on this very topic yesterday. My big question is why McCain specifically - but western governments and media collectively - seem to want to hype this event into a global crisis.
My article draws an analogy about a hypothetical scenario where Cuba tries to size Guantanamo and the U.S. responds similarly to the Russians in this instance.
I'd welcome thoughts and comments on the article.
http://theaffirmationspot.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/john-mccains-risky-russia-rhetoric-the-affirmation-spot-for-tuesday-august-19-2008/
Comment by Ray — August 20, 2008 @ 12:12 pm
mkochinski, one Okhlahoma city bomber isn't equal to the thousands act of terror committed by Muslims. This is clearly an excuse used by the left to declare Muslims as good as anyone else. Well they are not. Terror and Islam have always gone together because they are taught through historical examples that that is the "holy" way to behave.
Comment by Igor R. — August 21, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
wewillnotbeneoconned, usually the neo-cons are ID'd as the "joos". I think you're getting your neo-con hatred points all jumbled up.
Comment by Igor R. — August 21, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
Igor, I have to give you credit. You're not just an ignorant bigot, you're a PERSISTENT ignorant bigot.
The concept of America, silly, is that everyone, independent of race or creed, ALL start as good as anyone else. (That includes Muslims.)
It's your ACTIONS that you're judged by.
Now historically, each religion with the possible exception of Buddhism has been used as a justification for killing a whole bunch of other people. The terrorism committed by certain Muslim factions has been more than equaled by the terrorism committed by various Christian factions.
From the inquisition to witch hunts to the fervent defense of slavery (by Southern churches) well into the 1860's, Christianity hasn't always been a benevolent force.
But don't let reality get in the way of your paranoid bigotry.
It must be a scary, lonely thing to be you.
Comment by mkochinski — August 21, 2008 @ 9:18 pm